Sunday, February 8, 2009

They may be rights, but are they right?

I've recently been discussing fertility treatments and potential limits on it. The conversation then ventured into abortion and women's rights and their bodies. In the news there was a woman who bore 8 children do to fertility treatments, she also already has 6 children. The comment I responded to was that maybe this woman has mental issues and that potentially, fertility treatments should be legislated and limited. I remarked, "if that was the case, shouldnt abortion then be held to the same standard?" My example was a woman who had 10 abortions and was unwilling to practice safe sex and would continue to use abortion as a means of birth control. This example is just as ridiculous and potentially harmful as the woman who now has 14 children. Both are extreme examples of abusing certain "rights". My question is, "Is it right that women have complete control over what they do with their bodies?"


Anonymous said...

First, I think you should realize that these are extremely rare cases. They aren't the norm.

Second, one of the reasons abortion remains legal is because before it was, "back alley" or self-administered abortions resulted in horrible health problems and often death. THAT was the norm.

Third, you've got to weigh rights. Is the right of the mother to have as many children as she wants as important as the rights of the future children to a world where there is still enough food and water for everyone? No. But is the right of the woman to not have a child as important as the right of a future child to exist? It's debatable.

Fourth, I'm curious how you would enforce population control (which I am personally for) without mandating abortion.

Tit for Tat said...


Great points, rarely are things so simple as, "these are my rights".

Luke said...

well i can do whatever i want! and i'll be happy to be victimized and/or try to make money at the same time!

it's interesting to me how prolife and prochoice people act. i don't think one can be prolife and prodeath penalty. that just doesn't make sense! but i've found many people who support this type of thinking in my own congregation. it's funny because looking at the graph, one will see that since states started outlawing the death penalty and regulating abortions, the crime rates have fallen. is there a link? could be! can't commit crime if the criminal was never born.

i think it's a testament that if the quality of life-raises than crime and all the social ills of society decrease. however, this is something the prochoice crowd don't seem to talk too much about. they seem too concerned with keeping a "right" and not questioning why they should keep it in the first place.

"Why?" is the most important and most ignored question in any given group. RAWK!

Anonymous said...

I think abortion and fertility treatment can be equally abusive. Luke mentions beliefs that don't fit. I have plenty of friends who think abortion is the greatest evil ever to fall upon mankind but have not a second thought about implanting 8 embryos when then know most of them usually won't survive. Then they leave some frozen in a lab somewhere. Then when all 8 do take hold the babies end up in the NICU for 4 months fighting for their lives. I am amazed at the rationalization that takes place. As you are probably well aware by know, I think that our beliefs need to fit together better than that. At least I want mine to.

Anonymous said...

This is a major can of worms right now . . . I'll be keeping up with the discussion.

Dean said...

Such an interesting topic, this one. There is so much to this. This is more than a can of worms. It's an atomic bomb in the making.

Both arguments are inherently flawed for many reasons. The biggest for me is the fact that its impossible to define when life starts or ends. A popular Koan springs to mind. It asks who you were before your parents met.

Anyway, I digress. Before I got married, my wife had an abortion. Our child. We agreed to do it. She had it done. I waited and read MotorTrend in the waiting room. I remember the Viper road test.

I'm not sure that any amount of reasoning would have changed our minds back then.

I have two kids now. That abortion it the only thing that I regret in my life so far. I feel guilt. I feel responsible. I feel shame. I feel human. Almost too human in my emotional response to this. And it's all so much more than my unborn child had the opportunity to feel, to experience and to live.

Tit for Tat said...


I like the fact that it was a decision that both you and your wife came to. Unfortunately it is rarely a joint decision. That is more of a concern than either of my 2 examples. Thanks for you input.

Thordaddy said...

Although females may retain the legal right to do as they please with their bodies (The Promiscuity Principle), no man should ever concede that females have the moral right to kill their child in utero.

To say we don't know when life begins or ends only establishes a greater burden on pro-abortionists to justify their killing.

If you don't know then you can't kill, can you?

Lastly, there is no contradiction in a pro-life/pro-death penalty position especially in one who retains a traditional Western understanding. The contradiction is in advocating for the life of the guilty while condemning the life of the innocent to death. This is the general liberal position of the pro-abortion/anti-death penalty crowd.